태국 유튜브가 본 KF-21, 인도네시아 이탈과 엔진 국산화 논쟁
태국 구매론과 미국 종속 비판이 동시에 쏟아졌다
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이 영상은 뭔가요
영상은 KF-21 완성 소식과 F-35 비교, 그리고 인도네시아의 공동개발 이탈 배경을 다룬 것으로 보인다. 댓글은 크게 두 갈래로 갈렸다. 하나는 태국이 그리펜 대신 혹은 그리펜과 함께 KF-21 도입이나 공동 투자를 검토해야 한다는 반응이고, 다른 하나는 엔진을 비롯한 핵심 부품이 여전히 미국 통제 아래 있어 한국의 자체 기술력에 한계가 있다는 지적이다.
인도네시아의 이탈을 두고는 기술 이전 불발을 탓하는 쪽과 인도네시아 자체 재정난을 탓하는 쪽이 맞섰다. 댓글 몇 건은 인도네시아 정부 예산이 유류 보조와 급식 정책 등에 쓰여 공동개발 분담금을 내지 못했다는 설명을 내놓았고, 반대로 한국산 부품 비중과 기술 이전이 애초에 부실했다는 반박도 있었다.
가격과 세대 구분을 둘러싼 기술 논쟁도 눈에 띄었다. KF-21이 5세대 외형에 4.5세대 성능이라는 지적, F-35와 F-18 중 어느 쪽과 비교해야 맞는지에 대한 질문, 그리펜E가 더 경제적이라는 비교까지 다양한 각도의 댓글이 달렸다.
댓글에서 읽은 논점 2가지
- 01
태국이 KF-21 공동 투자나 구매에 나서야 한다는 반응이 여럿 있었고, 자국 T-50 생산 경험을 근거로 한국 기술을 신뢰한다는 평가도 나왔다.
- 02
엔진을 비롯한 핵심 부품이 미국 통제 아래 있어 한국이 사실상 조립 역할에 그친다는 비판이 이어졌고, 이를 인도네시아 이탈의 근본 원인으로 지목하는 댓글이 많았다.
해외 댓글 45개
막대 폭이 곧 관점별 채택 건수입니다.막대를 누르면 그 관점만 봅니다. 폭이 곧 채택 건수입니다.
- 칭찬@ภาณุมาศสันติภพ-ษ2ซ추천 20
한국의 국방 및 수출 기술은 모든 군군을 완벽히 갖추고 있습니다. 놀랍습니다.
เทคโนโลยีการป้องกันประเทศ&ส่งออก เกาหลีใต้ครบทุกเหล่าทัพ Seal.😮
- 비판@nattakitkhontong3835추천 17
인도네시아는 KF-21을 국내에서 생산하기를 원했지만, 한국의 KF-21은 자체적으로 생산하지 않으며 대부분의 부품을 수입해야 합니다. 예를 들어 미국의 F-414 엔진처럼요. 인도는 자신들의 민주주의가 감소하고 권위주의가 증가하고 있다는 것을 잘 알고 있습니다. 만약 프로젝트를 계속 진행한다면 인도는 비행기를 생산할 수 있지만 서방의 장비를 가져와야 하는데, 여기에는 정치적 조건이 따를 수 있습니다. 그래서 인도네시아는 공동 개발자 위치에서 벗어나 대신 다른 회사의 비행기를 사는 구매자로 나아갔습니다.
อินโดนีเซียต้องการผลิตkf21เองในประเทศ แต่kf21เกาหลีใต้ไม่ได้ผลิตเองชิ้นส่วนทุกอย่างส่วนใหญ่ยังต้องนำเข้าอยู่อย่างเครื่องยนต์f414จากสหรัฐ อินโดรู้ตัวดีว่าตัวเองเริ่มเป็นประชาธิปไตยน้อยลงความเป็นอำนาจนิยมเพิ่มขึ้น ถ้ายังจะเดินหน้าโครงการร่วมต่ออินโดอาจผลิตเครื่องบินได้แต่ต้องนำอุปกรณ์จากชาติตะวันตก ซึ่งอาจจะมีเงื่อนไขทางการเมืองเข้ามาเกี่ยวข้อง อินโดนีเซียเลยถอยออกจากผู้ร่วมโครงการมาเป็นผู้ซื้อและซื้อเครื่องบินจากอื่นค่ายๆมาแทน
- 경험담@ทิพย์วรรณเห้าชุ่ม추천 17
태국(태국공군?)이 한국을 방문했을 때 이미 봤습니다. 지금도 4.5세대입니다. 태국 공군도 이미 봤고 그렇게 봐뒀습니다.
ทอไปเยือนเกาหลีใต้ไปแล้วครับแอดยังเป็นยุค4.5อยุ่ตอนนี้ครับทอ มองไว้แล้วครับแอด
에디터 주석 문맥상 태국 고위 관계자의 방문을 의미하는 것으로 보임
- 유머@ธนพรโพธี-ฦ5ข추천 8
KF-21은 태국한테 아주 적합한데요 😂 F-35는 그냥 내다버리고 태국은 이거 안 사겠습니다.
KF-21เหมาะกับไทยมาก😂เขี่ยทิ้งไปเลยเอฟ35ไทยไม่เอาแล้ว
에디터 주석 비꼼. "적합하다"는 역설적 표현
- 비교@JitpakdeeFamily추천 7
그리펜 E/F를 사는 게 태국한테 낫겠는데, 더 싸고 더 쌉니다.
เอากริฟเพนe/fเหมือนไทยดีกว่าเพื่อนถูกกว่าคุ้มกว่า
- 비교@ภูวมิน-ล7ณ추천 5
이 가격이면 F-35를 사는 게 낫겠네요. 감사합니다.
ถ้าราคานี้ขอไปซื้อ f35 ดีกว่า ขอบคุณครับ
- 비교@Fc-no3tv추천 5
제 생각엔 그리펜보다 훨씬 낫습니다. 왜냐하면 대부분의 부품을 한국이 자체 생산하기 때문입니다. 그리펜은 많은 부품을 해외에서 수입해야 합니다.
ผมมองว่ามันเหนือกว่ากริพเพ้นเยอะ เพราะอะไหล่ส่วนใหญ่เกาหลีใต้ผลิตเอง ต่างกับกริพเพ้นที่อะไหล่หลายอย่างต้องนำเข้าจากต่างประเทศ
에디터 주석 그리펜 = 스웨덴의 JF-17 전투기
- 비교@11111-q-m추천 4
우리는 이미 T-50이 있으니까요.
เรามี TH 50 เป็นสารตั้งต้นอยู่แบ้ว
에디터 주석 T-50 = 한국의 초음속 고등훈련기
- 칭찬@jasminenguyen3392추천 4
한국 정말 대단하네요 🇰🇷🤟🤟🤟
เกาหลีใต้เจ๋งมากครับ 🇰🇷🤟🤟🤟
- 비교@nitinat8181추천 3
우리 그리펜 E가 확실히 낫습니다 😊
Gripen E ของเราดีกว่าแน่นอน 😊
에디터 주석 그리펜 = 스웨덴의 JF-17 전투기
- 칭찬@NatthawutNamsaengkot추천 3
태국군은 KF-21 24대를 구매해서 배치해야 합니다.
กองทัพไทยควรจัดซื้อKF21มาประจำการจำนวน24เครื่องครับ
- 칭찬@arnuntapanont7396추천 3
한국 분들 축하합니다.
ยินดีด้วยครับสำหรับชาวเกาหลี
- 질문@Fc-no3tv추천 3
미국이 6세대를 공개하면 5세대 기술을 한국과 일본에 공유할 겁니다. 지금 미국이 중국의 영향력에 대항하기 위해 한국과 일본을 완벽히 지원하고 있으니까요.
ถ้าเมกาเปิดตัวยุค 6 คงยอมแบ่งปันเทคโนโลยียุค 5 ให้กับเกาหลีใต้ เพราะตอนนี้อเมริกาสนับสนุนเกาหลีใต้กับญี่ปุ่นเต็มที่เพื่อต้านอิทธิพลจีน
- 유머@manza5170추천 3
인도네시아가 하는 게 없는 건 아니고 한국이 혼자 하는 건 아니네요 😂
อินโดไม่มีบทไม่ได้ทำอะไรเลยรึป่าวเกาหลีทำอยู่คนเดียว😂
- 정정@사자후...-k7p-s3j추천 3
KF-21은 라이선스를 받아 한국에서 생산되고 있으며, 2032년까지 엔진도 한국산 모델로 교체될 예정입니다. 엔진을 제외한 나머지 부품은 모두 한국산이고, 80%의 부품이 이미 국산화되었습니다. 인도네시아는 최근 모든 출자금을 지불했고 재정 상태가 좋지 않아서 한국에서 대출금을 신청할 예정입니다. 한국이 돈을 빌려주고 KF-21을 팔게 됩니다. 이미 1대는 무료로 인도했습니다. 가짜 뉴스를 퍼뜨리지 마세요.
The Kf21 is produced in Korea with a license for its engine, and by 2032, the engine will also be replaced with a Korean-made model. The remaining parts, excluding the engine, are Korean products, and 80% of the parts have been successfully localized. Indonesia has recently paid all its dues, and they are not in good financial shape, so they will apply for a loan from Korea, which will lend the money and sell the KF21. A unit of the time has already been delivered free of charge. Please stop spreading fake news.
- 칭찬@สมชายงามพร้อม추천 2
이것은 비교할 상대가 없는 기회입니다.
เป็นโอกาสที่ไม่มีคู่แข่ง
- 질문@บุญลือทวยเที่ยง추천 2
정말 멋진데요. 2개의 엔진이 있습니다. 태국은 여전히 큰 탑재량을 가진 전투기 편대가 부족하지만, 그 성능이 유럽 쪽과 대항할 수 있을까요? T-50을 만든 것으로 봐서는 신뢰할 수 있는 품질입니다. 이제 이 비행기의 비행 시간을 봐야겠는데, 문제가 얼마나 많을까요. 새로운 모든 무기는 항상 문제가 있습니다. 계속해서 업그레이드 버전이 나오니까요.
สวยมากครับ 2เครื่องยนต์ ที่ไทยยังขาดฝูงบินที่บรรทุกได้เยอะ แต่ประสิทธิภาพนั้นจะไปสู้ฝั่งยุโรปได้มั้ย จากที่ผลิตT50ออกมา นั้นคือคุณภาพที่ไว้ใจได้ ต่อไปก้ดูชั่วโมงบินเจ้านี้ว่าจะมีปัญหาไรมากมั้ย อาวุธทุกอย่างที่ออกมาใหม่ย่อมมีปัญหามาตลอด ถึงมีรุ่นปรับปรุงมาเรื่อยๆ
에디터 주석 T-50은 한국의 초음속 고등훈련기
- 비판@Cepebos추천 2
제 조언입니다: 그들과 방위용품을 절대 사지 마세요. 안 믿으면 먼저 인도네시아에 물어보세요. 인도네시아가 이미 KF-21로 그들의 게임에 걸려 있으니까요. 그 전에는 잠수함이었어요. 저는 웃기네요 😂 그들이 얼마나 형편없는지. 아니면 이 프로젝트가 부패로 가득 찬 건 아닐까요. 양쪽 국가의 관리들이 다 미쳤습니다.
Saran saya : jangan pernah membeli produk pertahanan dengan mereka. Jika tidak percaya bertanya dulu dengan Indonesia yang sudah terjebak dalam permainan mereka dalam kf21 ini. Sebelumya adalah submarine. Saya hanya bisa tertawa 😂 Betapa poor mereka. Atau jangan jangan proyek ini dipenuhi dengan korupsi. Pejabat Kedua negara sama sama gila uang.
- 질문@tourdown추천 2
어떻게 F-35보다 나을 수 있습니까? F-35는 5세대 기체이고 KF-21은 4.5세대입니다.
มันจะดีกว่า F-35 ได้ยังไงครับ เพราะ F-35 มันเครื่องยุค5 kf-21 เครื่องยุค4.5
- 유머@RitdechPulayako추천 2
인도네시아는 빠져나갔는데 태국은 손도 안 댔네요 😅😅 10년 동안 기관이 가로챈 돈을 무기 개발에 쓰면 편하겠지요 😂
อินโดนีเซีย ออก ไทยไม่เสียบนิ😅😅 เงินที่ถูกโกงกิน 10 ปี ออกไปพัฒนา อาวุธ สบายเลยมั้ง😂
에디터 주석 태국 부패 문제를 비꼼
- 유머@IAmGolfi추천 2
인도가 빠졌으니 우리 태국이 들어가도 괜찮겠는데요. 들어갈 수 있으면 더 좋겠고요.
อินโด ถอนตัว ไทยเราก็เสียบแทน ถ้าได้ยิ่งดีเลย
- 칭찬@chatchainachiangmai3434추천 1
한국은 24시간 전투 대비 상태를 유지해야 하기 때문에 북한이 사라질 때까지 무기 개발을 멈출 수 없습니다.
เกาหลีใต้ต้อวพร้อมรบตลอด 24ชม. เค้าจึง หยุดพัฒนาอาวุธ ไม่ได้ จนกว่า เกาหลีเหนือจะ สิ้นสภาพไป
- 비판@raisa_raa추천 1
KF-21을 믿지 마세요. 한국 보라매의 스페어 부품과 주요 부품은 한국 것이 아니라 미국 것입니다. 인도네시아는 이미 그들의 계약서에 속아서 기술 이전을 약속했지만 실제로는 주지 않았습니다. 왜냐하면 그 기술은 미국 소유이기 때문입니다. 인도는 엔진 없는 껍질만 받았습니다. 이제 인도는 터키, 중국, 프랑스로 방향을 바꿨는데, 당연히 그들의 기술이 더 좋습니다. 그들은 인도에서 더 많은 달러를 원하지만 이제 누가 신경 쓸까요... 이것은 두 번째 사건입니다. 그 전에는 한국 잠수함이 시험 중에 침몰해서 인명 피해까지 났습니다. 한국 군사 장비를 믿지 마세요.
jgn percaya KF 21 boramae korea sparepart dan komponen pentingnya adalah kepunyaan amerika bukan asli dari korea selatan. indonesia sdh tertipu di surat perjanjian mereka berjanji akan mentrasfer teknologi tapi nyatanya tidak diberikan soalnya teknologi hak milik amerika...indo hanya diberi kepompong tanpa mesin....sekarang Indo beralih ke turki,cina dan perancis yg tentu teknologinya lebih baik. mereka ingin lebih banyak dollar dari Indo tapi siapa yg peduli lg...ini kasus kedua sebelumnya adalah kapal selam korea yg dimasa uji coba sdh tenggelam dan memakan korban jiwa...jgn percaya peralatan perang korea.
- 비판@nusantararaya3244추천 1
한국은 자신들이 자랑스러워하는 영화들이 한국 생활의 현실을 반영하는 것처럼 드라마와 이중 잣대로 가득 찬 나라입니다. 합의된 기술 거래는 미국이 승인을 유보하기 때문에 취소되는데, 이는 한국이 실제 능력이 없고 조작에 관여했다는 것을 증명하면서도 여전히 결제를 요구합니다? 우습습니다. 저가 드라마로 가득한 사람들의 나라입니다.
South Korea is a country full of drama and double-talk—much like the movies it prides itself on, which mirror the reality of Korean life. Agreed-upon technology deals are cancelled because the US withholds permission—proving Korea lacks the actual capability and engaged in manipulation—yet they still demand payment? It’s laughable; a nation of people full of cheap drama.
- 비판@MR-OHMSNAKEHAED추천 1
보도에 따르면 인도네시아는 현재 국방부 예산 요청을 했지만 재무부가 제공하지 않았습니다. 왜냐하면 정부 재정이 낭비적이어서 석유값 보조와 학교 급식 프로그램에 다 사용되었기 때문입니다. 인도네시아가 예전에 호언했던 여러 무기 프로젝트가 지금 본 모습을 드러내고 있습니다.
ก็ถ้าตามข่าวอินโดตอนนี้ข่าวเรื่องงบประมาณกลาโหม ที่ขอไป แล้ว กระทรวงการคลังไม่ให้ เพราะ รัฐบาลถังแตก เอาไปอุ้มราคาน้ำมัน กับ โครงการอาหารกลางวันหมด โครงการอาวุธต่างๆ ที่อินโดนีเซียเคยโม้ไว้ใหญ่โต ตอนนี้เริ่มแผลแตกแล้ว
- 비판@NurCholis-p5h추천 1
인도네시아가 한국에 속았습니다(플라스틱 국가), 그래서 터키의 KAAN 전투기와 프랑스의 라팔 전투기로 전환했습니다... 벨라루스의 MiG-29와 러시아의 SU-35, SU-57을 얻을 기회도 있습니다... 중국의 J-10, 파키스탄의 J-17도요...
Indonesia di bohongi Korsel ( negara plastik ), makanya beralih ke jet tempur KAAN Turkiye dan menambah jet tempur RAFALE Perancis...Mig 29 Belarus serta peluang SU 35 Dan SU 57 Rusia... Juga J 10 China dan J 17 Pakistan...
에디터 주석 "플라스틱 국가"는 품질이 떨어진다는 비꼼
- 비판@StageProject-c6c추천 1
KF-21을 사는 것은 미국 제품을 사는 것과 같습니다. 자랑할 게 뭐가 있습니까? 인도네시아는 과거 학습이 있습니다. 미국이 인도네시아를 금수 조치한 적이 있습니다. KF-21 개발에 참여한 인도네시아도 그걸 사지는 않을 겁니다. 한국은 드라마로 가득합니다.
membeli KF-21 sama dengan membeli produk Amerika.Apa yang patut di banggakan,indonesia sudah ada pembelajaran di masa lalu pernah di embargo amerika Indonesia yang ikut ngembangin KF-21 aja tidak akan membelinya,Korea selatan Penuh dengan Drama korea
- 질문@yutkijsamnong3202추천 1
KF-21은 5세대처럼 생겼지만 많은 모델처럼 4.5세대일 뿐이고, F-5T까지도 마찬가지입니다. 다음으로는 기체당 가격과 장기 운용 비용을 살펴봐야 합니다. F-414 두 대의 엔진은 F/A-18E/F와 똑같습니다. 여러 측면에서 봐야 합니다. F/A-18E/F의 동체가 명백히 더 작다는 것을 알아차리세요. Block 1은 아직 공격 능력 기준이 없습니다. 그러면 누가 사겠습니까? 대부분의 전투기 임무는 공격입니다.
KF-21 หน้าตาเหมือน GEN5 แต่มันไม่ใช่แค่ 4.5 เหมือนหลายแบบแม้แต่ F-5T ต่อไปก็ดูราคาต่อลำและค่าใช้จ่ายระยะยาว เครื่อง F-414 สองเครื่องนี่คือ F/A-18E/F เลยนะ ต้องดูในหลายมิติ สังเกตุว่าลำตัว F/A-18E/F เล็กกว่าอย่างเห็นได้ชัด Block 1 ยังไม่มีขีดความสามารถโจมตี แล้วใครจะซื้อภารกิจเครื่องบินรบส่วนใหญ่คือโจมตี
- 질문@pakpoomchotima추천 1
1. 폭탄 탑재량을 F-15와 비교했으면 합니다. 2. 데이터링크 시스템이 뭐죠? 링크 16(Link-16)을 사용할 수 있나요? 3. 엔진이 2개인데 왜 F-35처럼 엔진 하나인 비행기와 비슷한 성능만 나올까요? 4. 이 비행기는 어떤 카테고리의 전투기인가요?
1.ถ้าการบรรทุกระเบิดอยากให้เทียบ F15 ครับ 2.ระบบลิงค์ใช้อะไรครับใช้ลิงค์ T จะได้ไหม 3.ทำไม 2 เครื่องยนต์แต่กลับบินได้พอๆกับ F35 เครื่องยนต์เดี่ยว 4.ตัวมันเป็นเครื่องบินประเภทใด
에디터 주석 Link-16 = NATO 데이터링크 표준
- 질문@นพพลจรัสวิกรัยกุล추천 1
지금 그들은 6세대에 들어갔습니다. 일본도 5세대 비행기의 프로토타입을 만들었고 시험 비행까지 했습니다. 이 프로젝트를 6세대 비행기 개발 프로젝트에 통합해야 할 겁니다. 영국, 이탈리아와 함께요. 인도네시아는 자체적으로 만들기를 원했지만, 정보에 따르면 여전히 미국 엔진을 사용해야 합니다. 그렇다면 인도네시아가 자체 구조를 만들고 미국 엔진을 자기들이 넣는 게 낫지 않을까요? 스텔스 모양이 있어도 스텔스 성능이 없으면 그뿐입니다. 그냥 4.5세대를 사는 게 더 낫지 않을까요? 😅
ตอนนี้เขาไปยุคที่ 6 กันแล้ว ญี่ปุ่นก็สร้างเครื่องบินยุค 25 มาแล้วเป็นต้นแบบทดสอบบินแล้ว ยังต้องยุบโครงการนี้ไปรวมกับโครงการสร้างเครื่องบินยุคที่ 6 โดยร่วมกันกับอังกฤษ-อิตาลี และอินโดนีเซียต้องการสร้างเอง แต่ข้อมูลบอกว่ายังต้องใช้เครื่องยนต์ของอเมริกา อย่างนี้อินโดนีเซียสร้างโครงสร้างและเอาเครื่องยนต์ของอเมริกามาใส่เองดีกว่ามั้ง ถึงมันจะมีรูปร่าง stealth แต่มันไม่สเตลท์ก็เท่านั้นแหละ ซื้อข้างบนยก 4.5มาเลยดีกว่า😅
- 비교@wichaipongthadaporn2026추천 1
한국이 베껴도 아무도 뭐라 하지 않습니다. F-35처럼 생겼는데 양을 깎으면 양 같은 거 아닙니까. J-20이 나왔을 때는 (사실 미국 스텔스 비행기와 완전히 다릅니다. 카나드가 있으니까) 계속 F-22를 베꼈다, F-35를 베꼈다고 비난받았습니다. 편향되었어요.
พอเกาหลีcopy บ้างกลับไม่มีใครว่าอะไรซักนิด หน้าตาเหมือนF35 อย่างกับแกะ ตอนJ-20 ออกมา (ทั้งๆที่ต่างจากเครื่องบินstealth ของอเมริกาตั้งเยอะ เพราะมี canards) แต่โดนค่อนขอด กล่าวหาว่าcopy F-22 บ้างF-35 บ้าง bias ดีแท้
에디터 주석 카나드(canard) = 항공기의 앞쪽에 달린 작은 날개
- 칭찬@manopkaenchumcokamon3965추천 0
태국은 투자에 참여해야 할 것 같습니다. 왜냐하면 한국의 생산 원가를 나누는 데 도움이 될 것이기 때문입니다. 한국이 버틸 수 없을까 봐 걱정됩니다. 프랑스의 유로파이터도 5개 국가가 함께 참여하고 있으니까요. 태국은 동맹국들을 초대해서 한국과 함께 참여해야 합니다. 얼마 안 있어 태국도 한국과 함께 성공할 겁니다. 확실합니다.
ประเทศไทยสมควรเข้าร่วมทุนเป็นอย่างยิ่ง เพราะจะได้ช่วยแบ่งเบา ต้นทุนการผลิตของเกาหลีใต้ กลัวเขาจะไม่ไหว เพราะขนาดว่ายูโรไฟเตอร์ จากฝรั่งเศสยังร่วมกันถึง 5 ประเทศ ประเทศไทยสมควรชวนพันธมิตรไปร่วมกับเกาหลีใต้ ไม่นานไทยจะสำเร็จร่วมไปกับเกาหลีใต้ อย่างแน่นอน
- 칭찬@miraclechannel2897추천 0
중요한 것은 그들이 록히드마틴 같은 개발을 도와주는 동맹국이 있다는 겁니다. 이제 둘 다 함께 개발하니까요. 어쨌든 이들은 확실히 함께 나아갈 겁니다.
ที่สำคัญ คือเขามีพันธมิตรที่ช่วยพัฒนาคือLockheed martinด้วย ทีนี้ก็พากันพัฒนาทั้งคู่เลย ยังไงพวกนี้ก็ไปด้วยกันแน่นอน
- 칭찬@lockpinos추천 0
정말 좋네요. 태국이 향후 10년 동안 이것을 사용했으면 좋겠습니다. 겉으로는 5세대이지만 실제로는 4.5세대이고, 저렴하고 유지보수가 쉬우니까요. 그리고 20~30년을 기다려서 흥미로운 5세대 뭔가가 나오면 그때 얘기합시다.
ชอบมาก อยากให้ไทยใช้ในช่วง10ปีนี้ เครื่องทรง เจน 5 แต่ จริงๆเป็น 4.5 เน้นประหยัดดูแลง่าย แล้วไว้รออีก 20-30 ปี ถ้ามีเจน 5 อะไรน่าสนใจค่อยว่ากัน
- 칭찬@peechapaksantatikarn2953추천 0
그건 F-35에서 한 발 물러났지만, 훈련용으로는 충분해요.
มันนั่งห่าง f35 เเต่เอามาฝึก ได้อยู่
- 비판@ณรากร-น7ถ4ฒ추천 0
한 각도로만 보면 성공이라고 할 수 있지만, 전체 그림을 보면 구식이라고 봅니다. 왜냐하면 1. 파키스탄+중국이 J-17을 완성했는데 벌써 3개 블록이 나왔고 4.5세대입니다. 2. 기술이 북한, 중국 같은 경쟁 상대와 비교하면 구식입니다. 왜냐하면 그들은 이미 15마흐 수준의 극초음속 미사일을 갖고 있는데 이 비행기는 장난감일 뿐이거든요. 북한의 미사일 수준과 비교하면요. 3. 한국도 일본과 다를 바 없고, 엔진을 직접 만들 수 없으며, 중국과 비교하면 한국은 껍데기만 만들 수 있지만 핵심은 여전히 미국이 통제합니다. 중국과 달리 중국은 국내에서 모두 만듭니다. 하지만 적어도 이 비행기는 미국이 F-35를 팔지 않는 태국과 많은 다른 나라들에게는 좋은 선택지입니다. 그리고 결국 이익의 절반은 미국의 것입니다. 왜냐하면 엔진이 미국 것이니까요. 그래서 한국은 마치 좋은 조립공장 같은 것입니다. 이것이 인도네시아가 프로젝트에서 빠져나간 이유입니다. 왜냐하면 핵심 부품이 여전히 미국이 통제하고 있기 때문이고, 이는 라팔(자체 엔진을 가진)과 다릅니다.
ถ้ามองมุมเดียวถือว่าประสบความสำเหร็จ แต่ถ้ามองภาพรวม ถือว่าล้าสมัย เพราะ.1 ปากีสถาน+จีน สร้างเจเอฟ17 เสร็จไป3 บลอ้คแล้ว ในรุ่น4.5 2. เทคโนโลยีล้าสมัยเมือเที่ยบกับคู่ปรับแบบเกาหลีหนือและจีน เพราะเขามีไฮเปอรโซนิคระดับ15มัคแล้ว เครื่องนี้ก็แค่ของเล่น เมือเทียบระดับกับขีปนาวุธ ของเกาหลีหนือ 3 เกาหลี ก็ไม่ต่างจากญี่ปุ่น พัตนาเครื่องยนเองไม่ได้ เมื่อเทียบกับจีน ทำได้แค่สร้างเปลือก แต่หัวใจยังถูกควบคุมโดยอเมริกา ต่างกับจีนที่ สร้างเองหมดในประเทศ แต่ อย่างน้อย เครื่องบินลำนี้ก้ถือว่าเป็นทางเลือกที่ดี สำหรับประเทศที่อเมริกาไม่ขายเอฟ35ให้เช่นประเทศไทยและหลายๆประเทศ และในที่สุดผลประโยขน์ ครึ่งหนึ่งเป็นของอเมริกา เพราะเครื่องยนต์เป็นของอเมริกานั้นเอง เกาหลีจึงเป็นเหมือนโรงงานประกอบ ดีๆเท่านั้นเอง นั้นเป็นเหตุให้อินโดนีเซียออกมาจากโครงการ เพราะอะหลั่ยหลักๆยังถูกคุมโดยอเมริกา ต่างจากราฟาลที่.มีเครื่องของตัวเอง.
- 비판@석춘배추천 0
인도네시아를 보는 것이 답답합니다. 인도네시아는 국가 차원의 방위 거래에서 IMF 수준의 금융 위기 직전인 국가처럼 나쁜 신의를 보이면서, 서방 무기부터 사회주의 국가의 군사 용품까지 모든 것을 구매하겠다고 주장하고 있습니다. 인도네시아의 국가 신용등급을 보세요. 전 세계 최하위이고, 부패 수준도 높습니다. 그들은 터키의 KAAN이든, 중국의 J-10이든, 프랑스의 라팔이든 무분별하게 계약에 서명하는 이 우스꽝스러운 행동을 멈춰야 합니다. 이들은 군사 장비를 사는 데 돈을 쓸 여유가 없으니까요. 만약 정말 돈이 있다면, 중국이 펀딩한 고속철도 프로젝트로 인한 빚을 갚는 데 사용해야지, 군사 하드웨어를 사야 하는 게 아닙니다.
It is infuriating to see Indonesia—a nation whose finances are teetering on the brink of an IMF-style crisis—acting in bad faith regarding government-to-government defense deals by claiming it will purchase everything from Western weaponry to arms from socialist states. Just look at Indonesia’s sovereign credit rating; it languishes at the bottom globally, and the country suffers from high levels of corruption. They need to put an end to this farcical behavior of recklessly signing contracts—whether for Turkey’s KAAN, China’s J-10, or France’s Rafale—when they lack the funds to pay for them. If they actually have money, they should use it to repay the debt incurred for the high-speed railway project funded by China, rather than buying military hardware.
- 비판@กฤชเตชะพันธุ์วณิช추천 0
제 생각엔 이 기술은 더 이상 비밀이 아닙니다. 돈이 있고 좋은 산업 체계가 있으면 만드는 게 어렵지 않습니다. 완벽하지는 않지만 비슷하게는 만들 수 있습니다. 하지만 더 중요한 것은 전투 제어 시스템이 되는 두뇌입니다. 그걸 자신의 필요에 맞게 설계해야 합니다. 짧은 시간에 해킹 걱정을 할 필요가 없기 때문이죠. 왜냐하면 전쟁이 난다면, 아무리 당신의 차량이 UFO 수준의 성능이 있어도 올라갈 수 없으면 그건 그냥 철 조각 더미일 뿐이니까요. 쌍카 물건으로 팔기 위해 기다리는 것과 같습니다.
สำหรับผมเทคโนโลยีนี้ไม่ลับแล้วครับ จะสร้างจริงมีเงินมีระบบอุตสาหกรรมที่ดีทำไม่ยากหรอกไม่เหมือนเป๊ะแต่ทำให้ใกล้เคียงได้ แต่ที่สำคัญกว่าคือสมองที่เป็นระบบควบคุมการรบต่างหากที่ควรออกแบบให้เฉพาะตัว ในเวลาอันสั้นแฮกไม่ได้จำเป็นกว่า เพราะถ้าต้องรบจริงต่อให้ยานพาหนะของคุณมีความสามารถระดับยูเอฟโอ แต่บินขึ้นไม่ได้ก็กองเศษเหล็กรอขายเชียงกงดีๆนี่เองครับ
에디터 주석 "쌍카 물건으로 팔기" = 태국 속어로 중고 가격으로 팔린다는 뜻
- 비판@เล็กโฟ추천 0
인도네시아 정부가 예산을 대중적 정책에 쏟아서 재정이 바닥났고, 공동 개발 프로젝트에 돈을 내놓지 않습니다. 정말 아깝습니다. 왜냐하면 자체 전투기를 생산할 수 있는 기회는 자주 오지 않거든요. 🤔🤔
รัฐบาลอินโด เอางบไปใช้กับนโยบายประชานิยมจนถังแตก ไม่มีจ่ายในโครงการพัฒนาร่วมกัน ถือว่าน่าเสียดายมากนะ เพราะโอกาสที่จะได้ผลิตเครื่องบินรบเอง ไม่ได้มีมาบ่อยๆด้วย 🤔🤔
- 비판@ModelTrainsThailand추천 0
전투기는 휴대폰과 다릅니다. 휴대폰은 사서 쓸모없으면 버리면 되지만, 전투기는 실제로 전투에 나가서 검증되지 않으면 판단하면 안 됩니다. 왜냐하면 단순히 군인의 생명뿐 아니라 전 국가, 국토 전체를 의미하기 때문입니다.
เครื่องบินรบไม่เหมือนโทรศัพท์มือถือ ที่หากซื้อมาแล้วใช้ไม่ดีก็โยนทิ้งไป แต่เครื่องบินรบถ้าไม่เคยออกรบให้เป็นที่ประจักษ์ก็ไม่ควรนำมาพิจารณา เพราะมันไม่ได้สำคัญแค่ชีวิตทหาร แต่มันหมายถึงทุกๆอย่างรวมไปถึงประเทศทั้งประเทศและแผ่นดิน.
- 질문@sombutpitagtomorn추천 0
몇 나라가 엔진을 생산할 수 있나요? 겉은 만들 수 있어도 심장과 엔진은 여전히 수입해야 해요.
มีกี่ประเทศที่ผลิตเครื่องยนต์ได้ครับ ผลิตได้แต่โครงแต่ใส้ในกับเครื่องยนต์ต้องนำเข้าอยู่ดี
- 질문@saroat1115추천 0
마력이 얼마냐, 공격용 무장은 얼마나 실을 수 있나, F-414를 쓰는데 그것도 F-18 성능 수준이고, 그걸 F-35와 비교하려 하니요? F-18과 비교하는 게 맞을 거 같은데요.
กำลังขับเท่าไร เเบกอาวุธโจมตีได้เเค่ไหน ใช้f414 เเรงอยู่ f18เวอร์ชันเกาหลี เอาไปเทียบf35ทำไม สังเทียบf18จะเเหก
에디터 주석 원문의 「เเรงอยู่」는 오타로 보이며 문맥상 "F-414가 강력하다" 정도의 의미로 읽힘
- 비교@วรรลดายศนันท์추천 0
한국전쟁 당시 태국도 병사를 보내 도와주었고, 100년이 채 안 되는 짧은 시간에 국가를 건설했습니다. 한국의 지도자들은 뛰어난 과학자였기 때문입니다. 하지만 태국은 박사 학위자가 넘쳐나는데 태국의 지도자와 고급 장교들은 비전이 없습니다.
ในสมัยสงครามเกาหลี ไทยยังทหารไปช่วยป้องกัน และสร้างประเทศไม่ถึง ร้อยปื เพราะผู้นำเกาหลีใต้ นักวิทยาศาสตร์เยี่ยมยอด แต่ไทยมี ดร.จนล้นประเทศ แต่ผู้นำ และทหารชั้นผู้ใหญ่ไทย ไร้วิศัยทัศน์
- 경험담@Rtuifsacfvvj추천 0
태국도 전투기를 직접 만들고 싶어요. 군함도 직접 만들고, 잠수함도 직접 만들고 싶습니다. 태국이 확실히 만들 수 있습니다. 정부의 자금 지원을 충분히 받기만 하면 됩니다. 먼저 전투기와 잠수함 제조 기술을 배우러 가야 해요. 먼저 자금을 신청하고, 그 다음에 만들고, 그 다음에 수출하는 거죠.
ไทยก็อยากสร้างเครื่องบินรบเอง สร้างเรือรบเอง สร้างเรือดำน้ำเอง ไทยต้องสร้างได้แน่นอน ขอให้ได้เงินหนุนจากรัฐบาลเยอะๆก่อน ขอไปเรียนสร้างเครื่องบินสร้างเรือดำน้ำก่อน ขอเงินไปใช้ก่อนถลุงก่ิอน
- 유머@ผู้บ่าวเฒ่า-ศ5จ추천 0
쥐한테 손님이 있으면 손님을 먼저 때려야 할까 쥐를 먼저 때려야 할까.
เจองู กับ แขก จะทำไง ตี แขก ก่อน รึ งู ก่อน
에디터 주석 속담 같은 표현으로, 두 문제가 동시에 터졌을 때 어느 것을 우선적으로 해결해야 하는가에 대한 질문. 아마도 정치적 상황을 비유하는 것으로 보임
에디터 노트
이번 댓글란에서 흥미로운 지점은 인도네시아 이탈을 둘러싼 설명이 하나로 모이지 않는다는 점이다. 기술 이전 불이행을 탓하는 인도네시아 쪽 댓글과, 인도네시아 정부의 재정난과 예산 우선순위 문제를 지적하는 태국 쪽 댓글이 서로 다른 원인을 가리키고 있어 어느 한쪽 설명만으로 단정하기는 어렵다.
한국산 부품 비중이 80%에 달하고 엔진도 2032년까지 국산화할 예정이라는 정정성 댓글도 있었던 만큼, 엔진 종속론과 국산화 진행론이 같은 글 안에서 충돌하고 있다는 점을 염두에 두고 읽을 필요가 있다.
태국 댓글 특유의 자국 비교도 두드러진다. 그리펜E의 경제성을 내세우는 의견과 KF-21을 더 높이 평가하는 의견이 공존했고, 자국의 부패나 정책 우선순위에 대한 자조적인 농담도 여러 건 섞여 있었다.
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